The Oscars of the Short-Term Rental Industry Are Here! | Episode 27 | STR Data Lab™ by AirDNA

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There's

a lot of camaraderie in this industry.

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There's a lot of like,

we're in this together.

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It is a small industry.

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A small, big industry

is what I would call it.

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Excellent, excellent definition of

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the whole knowledge of this sector.

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Everything is so inextricably linked

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to travel and short term rentals

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related to politics or related to sports

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or related to the economy.

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Hello, Paul Stevens, my friend.

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I haven't seen you since Vegas.

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This is so.

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What a lovely surprise

to have you on the podcast today.

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We were just talking about how this is.

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This isn't your first podcast.

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It isn't mine. We're going to have.

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I what I love about

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our podcast is it's like crazy authentic.

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So it's just like two friends talking

today.

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And I would love to know what the heck

is up with Paul Stevens, my friend.

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Firstly, firstly, let me just make sure

that people know who you are because Jamie

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Lane yelled at me the other day,

he was like, You forgot to introduce me.

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And I was like,

I just assumed everyone knew who you were.

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So before I make that assumption, folks

again, why are you in for a treat today?

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Is that we are talking to Paul Stevens,

the editor of Short Term Rentals.

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I think most of you probably are aware

of that publication and are following it,

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which is part of international

hospitality media.

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Paul,

you've been in this business for a while,

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but I don't know your origin story.

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I don't know

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what in the heck possessed you or

maybe somebody pulled you into this world.

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Tell me, how did you get involved

in this crazy business.

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And know, firstly, really

good to see you again, Mariah in Vegas.

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I didn't really know you.

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It doesn't seem like five

or six months ago since.

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Well, you're probably glad, actually,

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that with total typos

on this interview as well.

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Oh, this.

This is a very good point you bring up.

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Usually Paul is interviewing people

and now he's in the hot seat.

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You prepared my face and everything.

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And the light thing,

especially for you, is

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now. Yes.

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So I'm editor of a website called

Short Term Rentals, and that's rentals.

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Was that I mean, they ask me what

why is the Z.

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But it's it's us pay I guess.

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And yes

we're part of international media group

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which we basically have four B2B websites

in hospitality and real estate.

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And I think your viewers will be

most familiar with short term rentals.

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But then we also go into boutique hotels.

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Tony's serviced apartments

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and set ins and urban living.

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So pretty much everything else

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in the site.

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Yeah, short term rentals.

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I was just thinking about it

and actually I've been in the industry now

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for like four and a half years or

something which has flown by and come in.

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It's been a complete rollercoaster

couple of years and you look back,

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that was late 2018

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and at that time of course I had

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experience booking short term rentals

and when you add in BE was that

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since then me

and the whole knowledge of this industry

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has is increased,

the investments increased in the sector

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we've had, we've sort of had to become

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always experts

talking about Brexit, HIV-AIDS,

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trade wars, financial crises.

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And so it's very much, you know,

you have to stray from your comfort zone

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with this joke, but

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it's I'm very

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happy to be in this industry

and happy to be here with you today.

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You know what else

I forgot to warn our listeners about

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is that you just have a lovely

I mean, for me as a terrible American,

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I just love listening to you

talk and read verses a Z.

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It's this is fabulous.

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Paul We we still see

Gen Z the way I think even in the UK,

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like people, people don't really say Gen

Z, that's just the way it cuts, meaning.

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This is well,

firstly I think let's make this happen.

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Gen Z I'm going to start using it.

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I just yeah, I like, I try to like,

you know,

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just ingrain myself into the culture of

whomever I'm speaking to.

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So if I start talking with an accent,

I apologize in advance.

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I know they will love all accents.

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It's is I love meeting people

from all over the world.

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This is this is the best pub. Talk to me.

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Oh, my gosh. What?

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And this is the best part, I think. Yeah.

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Of like the advantage you have

is that you are taking a global view

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on the short term rental industry.

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And I love what you just brought

up. Right.

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Which is that like, you know, you're,

you're trying to report on something

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very, very specific,

which is short term rentals.

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However, there's quite a lot of big macro

things happening,

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including a war in Ukraine and Brexit

and COVID that that impacts

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what's happening in the short term

rental business.

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And hey, for years makes you an OG.

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I'd say in this.

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Also, that's a that's a first for me.

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So I'll take that from Yeah, Thank you.

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Yeah. Yeah.

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It's, it's funny how,

you know whatever is, is news is

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it's something that, you know,

we're covering travel and hospital tape

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but how the whole knowledge

of this sector,

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everything is so inexplicably linked

to inextricably linked

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to travel and short term rentals.

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It related to politics

or related to sports

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or related to the economy

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and all sorts of tensions as well.

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So but lots of lots of opportunities

have been the market.

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And I think there are

some fantastic people that I've met

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throughout the last couple of years

doing, doing amazing things.

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And it's it's great when you can build

platforms like this and really,

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really highlight some of the innovators

and seek to make a difference.

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Oh, my gosh, I love it.

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Well, that was it's funny

because it's almost like you may have

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kind of known where my brain was going

because I was like, I was like, what?

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What about this

particular industry is exciting for you?

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But and I think you bring up

a really good point, right?

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Which is that you're out there sort of,

you know, getting the be getting the pulse

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and you're able to, you know, celebrate

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the innovation

that's been happening in the industry.

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Yeah, completely.

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I, I love this industry.

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I love the diversity

of people that you meet.

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And they what we talk about with, say,

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you know, issues

perhaps in in the circles like we see

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maybe not so many women

in senior positions

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or so much diversity in panels

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or or you know,

we see so many different ages as well.

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And I think the short term rent

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to industry is sort of ahead of the curve

from what I've seen.

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There's obviously still a long way

to go with some of the issues as well.

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But this is an industry

that's really rich.

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Everyone gets along pretty well,

even competitors.

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I think

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on the whole

they've been maybe not in every sense that

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you go along to these events

and it's just crazy

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how everyone knows each other or you know,

someone first for a link to it

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and then beat each other.

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And it's like your best friends or other.

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And it's yeah, it's, it's

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an industrial thing

part of and, and it's evolving.

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So quickly over time which my sources

as journalists and the media

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in a really good position to educate

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or inform or yeah just

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just let everyone know what's happening

and by the short term introspective.

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I love that.

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Yeah I mean we certainly rely on you

as a news source to understand

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sort of what's happening.

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And it is very easy to get sort of

myopically focused

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on your own little market

or your own little world.

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And, you know, again, to take maybe like

more of a nationalistic approach, right?

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Like what's happening in the US?

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And then it's like, oh, right.

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There's all this other stuff happening

across the globe and yes, let's celebrate.

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You're right, There's a lot of camaraderie

in this industry.

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There's a lot of like,

we're in this together.

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It is a small industry,

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a small, big industry is what

I would call it, because it always is.

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And laughing, as. A lot of us.

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Excellent, excellent definition of.

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A small world.

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Yeah.

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And, you know, I think, you know, I'm

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not here to do those shameless plugs,

but I love this. Do

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I love what you guys are doing

as you and I and I love?

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Especially straight.

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Ahead. Yeah.

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The data that you're putting out

and you know, the reports,

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your whole team is doing

some fantastic work

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that makes life for us

sometimes quite easy, as is editors.

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And for for us just to see the data

that's happening

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in in Europe

and what markets are performing well.

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Well,

since they air all the comparison with

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with with the US

markets and elsewhere as well,

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I know if I'm writing a story about what's

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happening in a particular country or

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a market, then I can come to you.

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And yeah, I appreciate the work

that you're doing as well, as well

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as all the other data providers and people

that are supporting us on our stories.

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This is a very well, thank you.

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Firstly, again, definitely

for the shameless plug about any place

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that's unexpected.

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Yeah, I was,

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I thought it was about to be about you,

but we're going to get to that.

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This is tough.

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But I one of the things that sort of

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just sparked something for me and that is

like we make a great team, right?

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Because you're out there and like

anecdotal is too little of a word, right?

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But you're out there

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sort of like feeling things out, like,

what am I hearing on the street?

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What are people telling me?

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You know, you're collecting

your own type of data, like qual data,

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let's call it qualitative data around

what's happening in the business.

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And then the reason we make a good team is

then you can sort of validate and verify

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some of that, as many journalists

do, with our quantitative data.

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Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.

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So that's cool.

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Yeah, Perfect Team two.

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Perfect team. Absolutely.

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I love what you guys are doing.

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Well, let's. Well, thank you.

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And we love the work that you're doing.

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I and I want to talk a little bit

about again, like I was like

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how Paul Stevens knows

what's up in this business.

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So what has been the biggest change

that has maybe like sort of

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struck you in the last year?

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Because I've been in this business

for 18 months and so I'm definitely

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a new table.

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So I'm the new

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and I am like, wow,

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things changed a lot for me in 18 months.

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So what's your perspective on what's

the biggest what's the biggest difference?

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This year

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is probably hard to identify.

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One thing

we covered the whole breadth of news

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that you say you see M&A and investment.

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You'll see.

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Yeah, you know, we we cover regulations,

we cover

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any type of legislation to be fair

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supplier or

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technology property management stories,

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as I think the investment landscape

is very interesting as well

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because I'll probably say this

with the other trends.

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It's not maybe been a big shift, but it's

just a continuation of a lot of things.

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And I think on the investment side

from from the stuff

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that I'm hearing and sometimes

we actually don't always get over news.

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And so it comes out of it

as an embargo on it.

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Right. There's there's plenty of of

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and I happening

all the time in the sector as well.

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And it doesn't even tend to necessarily

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refer to just one section of the industry.

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It could be

I mean, you see property managers of all

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sorts raising capital and we see,

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you know, tech providers,

people who are innovating and providing

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new solutions to the

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market,

particularly in the catching party.

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So we're seeing investments

really across across the sphere.

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And something we're really interested in

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at the moment is the I don't know

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if you can call it alternative types

of launching at the market.

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And I think

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that you've talked about unique types

of accommodation full well.

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We're looking at holiday parks or holiday

or camping

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glamping type companies

which are raising so much

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money now.

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And the fact that it raises

it raises a lot of ideas for us.

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And we're seeing people again

wanting to escape back to nature.

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That's probably something

that has continued from the pandemic.

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Then we were

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more restricted

in the sorts of travel that we could do,

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although I think the urban players

are starting to rise again.

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And the M&A is is also

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in that space.

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But on the other side,

something that we're always covering on

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short term rentals is

is the regulatory landscape as well.

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And maybe we see this differently to what

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is seen in the States, but

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if you weren't already covering it,

but the European Commission

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is going through this

this period of think it's 27

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EU member states who

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it's going through a couple of stages, but

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I think we're moving

closer to a more uniform

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version of regulations across the States.

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And really we're just looking at

what the impact is going to be.

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I think this is a sector

00:14:38:25 - 00:14:43:19

that is it is in a bit of an inflection

00:14:43:19 - 00:14:46:25

point now, and we're just waiting to see

what's going to happen with that.

00:14:47:24 - 00:14:49:25

I love that description of it.

00:14:49:25 - 00:14:52:17

So, yeah, I think like

just like taking it from the top, right?

00:14:52:17 - 00:14:53:26

Like you hit

00:14:54:13 - 00:14:56:08

so many core, you know, sort of

00:14:56:08 - 00:14:59:21

parts of what is changing

and why we're at an inflection point.

00:14:59:21 - 00:14:59:29

Right.

00:14:59:29 - 00:15:03:08

Which is, you know, the M&A

and just sort of the consolidation

00:15:03:08 - 00:15:07:05

of what was, you know, historically

a little bit of a fragmented business.

00:15:07:05 - 00:15:07:27

Right.

00:15:08:15 - 00:15:11:20

Which is super, super interesting

and definitely demarcating

00:15:11:20 - 00:15:13:28

and maturation of the industry as well.

00:15:14:25 - 00:15:18:19

And then talking about that technology

component, right where people are now

00:15:19:17 - 00:15:22:19

looking at what

what what the robots can do,

00:15:22:20 - 00:15:24:12

We're all scared

about what the robots can do.

00:15:24:12 - 00:15:26:05

Well, okay, maybe I'm old.

00:15:26:05 - 00:15:27:08

We talk about.

00:15:27:19 - 00:15:32:10

So. I'm a little frightened by the robots,

but you know exactly that, right?

00:15:32:10 - 00:15:32:23

Like what?

00:15:32:23 - 00:15:36:12

What can technology do to improve the

efficiency in this business?

00:15:37:13 - 00:15:38:08

And then

00:15:38:08 - 00:15:41:17

the changes

in just like the consumer behavior, Right?

00:15:41:17 - 00:15:46:13

The consumer being travelers and how,

you know, their desires have changed what,

00:15:47:03 - 00:15:50:04

you know,

we can shed from COVID that we will, you

00:15:50:04 - 00:15:53:09

know, kind of go back to quote unquote,

normal like urban travel.

00:15:53:09 - 00:15:55:16

And, you know,

we're all ready to go back to cities.

00:15:55:16 - 00:15:57:22

And what we're

also holding on to from COVID

00:15:57:22 - 00:15:59:06

and what we've really appreciated

00:15:59:06 - 00:16:03:14

maybe about how we adjusted our travel

behavior during COVID.

00:16:03:14 - 00:16:05:29

Right. I spent I spent a lot more time.

00:16:05:29 - 00:16:08:27

I do live in a state, Colorado,

where there is a lot of woods.

00:16:09:03 - 00:16:09:22

Yeah.

00:16:10:18 - 00:16:13:09

And then finally, yes,

that regulation piece.

00:16:13:09 - 00:16:16:10

And I think what's just valuable

about what you're doing

00:16:17:00 - 00:16:19:17

is that people need to understand

like what is happening

00:16:19:17 - 00:16:22:16

on a macro level as well as a micro level.

00:16:23:03 - 00:16:24:16

Super fascinating.

00:16:24:16 - 00:16:28:08

And I want to know more from you

about the European Commission because,

00:16:28:17 - 00:16:31:24

you know, I was talking to a fellow

the other day about this and, you know,

00:16:31:25 - 00:16:34:15

he was saying what is nice

that he's in Arizona, the state.

00:16:34:24 - 00:16:35:07

And he said

00:16:35:07 - 00:16:36:15

one of the things that's nice about that

00:16:36:15 - 00:16:38:26

is they actually have

blanket rules for the state.

00:16:39:12 - 00:16:42:06

So it's like it just makes it

a little easier for people when it's

00:16:42:06 - 00:16:45:13

when the rules are so fragmented,

is really hard to understand.

00:16:46:06 - 00:16:49:24

Conversely, when the rules are fragmented,

everybody feels like they are doing

00:16:49:24 - 00:16:53:27

what's best for their little tiny county,

city state.

00:16:54:21 - 00:16:55:12

Absolutely.

00:16:55:12 - 00:16:58:27

And I think I think you've hit the nail

on the head, particularly

00:16:59:05 - 00:17:01:14

in the first thing that you're saying

when a lot of these

00:17:01:17 - 00:17:04:02

those trends

that were popping up during COVID.

00:17:04:02 - 00:17:08:00

And I remember thinking,

you know, in those early days of COVID,

00:17:08:15 - 00:17:12:13

we kind of thought,

how are we going to cover the industry?

00:17:12:13 - 00:17:15:07

What is what is news going to be like?

00:17:15:07 - 00:17:21:25

Is it going to be this spate of

liquidations, administrations, job cuts?

00:17:22:12 - 00:17:24:26

And there was that to be fair as well. But

00:17:26:16 - 00:17:29:01

some of those trends, we're starting

to see

00:17:29:10 - 00:17:34:26

that the move to more domestic travel,

00:17:34:26 - 00:17:38:29

the growth in supply, a lot of these

things are still happening as well.

00:17:38:29 - 00:17:41:05

But at the same time,

00:17:41:05 - 00:17:44:05

the world is a very different place

as well too.

00:17:44:05 - 00:17:47:13

It's a pre-COVID and it doesn't need me

to say that as well.

00:17:47:13 - 00:17:49:29

But the shifts that we're seeing in the

00:17:51:17 - 00:17:54:05

data, what you were doing as DNA

00:17:54:27 - 00:17:58:14

and technology

and I I'm really interested.

00:17:58:22 - 00:18:02:21

We just hosted a webinar

this week on predictive hospitality.

00:18:02:26 - 00:18:03:13

Yeah.

00:18:03:13 - 00:18:06:19

And looking at, you know,

what sort of data are people going

00:18:06:19 - 00:18:09:27

to be looking at moving forward,

what's going to be useful for them?

00:18:09:27 - 00:18:13:02

And you can have past looking data,

00:18:13:02 - 00:18:15:20

can have forward looking data, really.

00:18:16:07 - 00:18:20:07

I mean, I was educating myself

during this session in particular, but

00:18:21:09 - 00:18:23:00

there's a lot of interesting things

happening

00:18:23:00 - 00:18:26:24

there and the evolution is happening

all the time, I think.

00:18:26:25 - 00:18:31:21

So to answer your the second part

of the question as well, firstly.

00:18:31:21 - 00:18:33:08

Kudos for you for remembering.

00:18:33:08 - 00:18:35:19

I don't know.

00:18:35:19 - 00:18:36:20

It was

00:18:37:11 - 00:18:39:27

they the regulatory

00:18:40:21 - 00:18:43:23

regulations, maybe the European Commission

00:18:44:20 - 00:18:48:11

and it has to go through so many stages

00:18:48:21 - 00:18:51:16

and so of lots of different approvals.

00:18:51:16 - 00:18:55:15

And so we're very much waiting to see.

00:18:55:15 - 00:18:58:17

I think the the rules to my knowledge

00:18:58:22 - 00:19:02:15

have been approved and

00:19:02:23 - 00:19:04:07

that there is a sense

00:19:04:07 - 00:19:07:10

sometimes like there is a hostility

00:19:07:10 - 00:19:10:24

towards short term

rentals in certain markets across Europe,

00:19:11:19 - 00:19:13:29

but that's very much the consensus is

00:19:14:04 - 00:19:17:02

the industry does not oppose regulations

00:19:17:21 - 00:19:20:03

right of any kind, but it has to be

00:19:22:18 - 00:19:24:26

what's the word I'm thinking of

00:19:24:26 - 00:19:27:00

proportional, proportional

00:19:27:00 - 00:19:30:06

one to all sorts of accommodation

types as well.

00:19:30:06 - 00:19:34:15

And for an industry segment

that has done so well during COVID

00:19:34:15 - 00:19:39:21

and supported Keyworkers

supported groups, supported families,

00:19:40:00 - 00:19:44:03

corporate travelers,

this is an industry that deserves respect.

00:19:44:16 - 00:19:48:14

And I just hope that

whatever is the result of this

00:19:49:15 - 00:19:51:08

in Europe, that

00:19:51:08 - 00:19:54:04

the industry is respected and it can keep

00:19:54:18 - 00:19:57:06

can keep on its growth trajectory.

00:19:57:06 - 00:19:58:27

That was Well, I love that.

00:19:58:27 - 00:20:00:23

That was so well said.

00:20:00:23 - 00:20:07:05

It's almost like you write things

that sound good for a living, but it's.

00:20:07:23 - 00:20:12:12

You know, so I think sort of

the perception could be that your

00:20:13:12 - 00:20:17:19

and this isn't in my words,

that people can see you

00:20:17:19 - 00:20:19:20

as some sort of you

00:20:20:18 - 00:20:23:09

or that that's I'm sure that is enough.

00:20:23:10 - 00:20:27:05

Say it's all but it's just someone

who can either see really

00:20:27:05 - 00:20:32:22

what's happening in the industry

and your your job is to know

00:20:33:05 - 00:20:37:00

a little about a lot of things

rather than a lot about a few things.

00:20:37:00 - 00:20:40:11

So if I feel I'm not always able

to go into detail,

00:20:40:28 - 00:20:45:17

hopefully I can give a sense of

of what people are talking about with me

00:20:45:17 - 00:20:48:27

and the general state of mind

and the industry.

00:20:49:08 - 00:20:50:03

Oh my goodness.

00:20:50:03 - 00:20:53:16

And that's it's incredibly valuable,

I think, to your point, right,

00:20:53:16 - 00:20:55:13

Because there are quite a few people

00:20:55:13 - 00:20:59:15

in this industry that you know, know a lot

about something very specific.

00:20:59:15 - 00:21:00:06

And, you know,

00:21:00:06 - 00:21:03:25

your ability to sort of zoom out

and look at the forest through the trees.

00:21:04:08 - 00:21:07:03

I also love analogies,

so I apologize in advance.

00:21:07:11 - 00:21:09:23

I love analogies to keep up.

00:21:09:23 - 00:21:10:16

Okay. We'll see.

00:21:10:16 - 00:21:12:19

Now we're cooking.

00:21:12:19 - 00:21:14:21

You bring up a really,

really good point. Right?

00:21:14:21 - 00:21:17:02

And I think there is a little bit

of a misnomer. Right.

00:21:17:02 - 00:21:20:00

And also sometimes people,

I do think, confuse the issue. Right.

00:21:20:00 - 00:21:22:13

Which is just like no regulations

have to be bad.

00:21:22:13 - 00:21:24:06

They cannot be good. Right.

00:21:24:06 - 00:21:25:18

Or we're against them.

00:21:25:18 - 00:21:29:20

And I think what you're saying

is that, like we're for regulations

00:21:29:20 - 00:21:32:29

that seem fair and proportional

to the regulations that are already

00:21:32:29 - 00:21:35:28

put on other industries in the business.

00:21:36:28 - 00:21:39:10

So I think

00:21:39:10 - 00:21:43:29

we work closely with

with some of the advocacy organizations

00:21:44:08 - 00:21:46:13

within the industry, and we love to see

00:21:47:21 - 00:21:52:10

the strength of these industry

organizations coming together,

00:21:52:10 - 00:21:56:13

whether that's hosting events

and having regulation highlighted

00:21:57:18 - 00:22:00:17

prominently on panels.

00:22:00:17 - 00:22:04:15

I was lucky enough

to be in on a recording of

00:22:05:23 - 00:22:08:00

one of our podcasts.

00:22:08:00 - 00:22:12:10

They there in Las Vegas and saying,

What am I doing with

00:22:12:15 - 00:22:14:06

Dana Reeve responsibly?

00:22:14:06 - 00:22:18:23

And you got Jamie from Etsy

and I was there and these roundtables

00:22:18:24 - 00:22:21:22

and people are people have big voices

00:22:22:10 - 00:22:26:04

in this industry

as well for growth of podcasts and media.

00:22:26:24 - 00:22:30:23

So everyone is kind of becoming content

creators in their own right as well.

00:22:30:23 - 00:22:33:29

And these, these voices, if we can unite

00:22:33:29 - 00:22:37:09

everyone together, I think that's really

for the benefit of the whole

00:22:38:13 - 00:22:39:04

industry.

00:22:39:04 - 00:22:42:06

And you know that there'll always be

00:22:43:12 - 00:22:45:21

authorities,

00:22:45:21 - 00:22:48:29

organizations who maybe want to slap

00:22:49:28 - 00:22:52:02

more, more stringent regulations on us.

00:22:52:02 - 00:22:55:24

But I think if we can get in

a healthy dialog, dialog with them

00:22:55:24 - 00:22:58:26

and really show the strength

and the solidarity

00:22:59:16 - 00:23:03:21

of this whole industry,

then we'll be in a better place for it.

00:23:04:12 - 00:23:06:21

I love that. Know it's such a good point.

00:23:07:10 - 00:23:10:25

And yet, Major shout out to Matt and Matt

Lando and Dana Love in our bed

00:23:10:25 - 00:23:13:02

because they have done

I think to your point

00:23:13:02 - 00:23:16:09

just that right which is like

can we get organized around this?

00:23:16:24 - 00:23:19:21

And we sort of have instead of

just like a couple of big voices

00:23:19:21 - 00:23:22:20

talking about it,

can we get sort of a resounding drumbeat

00:23:23:28 - 00:23:25:01

and bring things together?

00:23:25:01 - 00:23:27:17

Because again, historically, that's been

the challenge, right, for the industry

00:23:27:17 - 00:23:31:14

is that we are so decentralized and like,

okay, like is, you know,

00:23:31:15 - 00:23:36:00

and so having a cause to unite us,

I think one is great

00:23:36:00 - 00:23:39:17

and then having people like that

responsibility responsibly.

00:23:40:24 - 00:23:41:14

You know.

00:23:42:03 - 00:23:43:08

I think I.

00:23:43:08 - 00:23:44:04

Think you

00:23:46:08 - 00:23:48:10

having folks like rent responsively.

00:23:48:10 - 00:23:49:27

Dana Sorry. I promise.

00:23:49:27 - 00:23:51:14

I know how to say your company's name.

00:23:51:14 - 00:23:53:13

Is getting edited out.

00:23:54:12 - 00:23:55:18

This maybe.

00:23:55:18 - 00:23:59:07

I mean, like I said, we

we added only just a little 20%.

00:23:59:09 - 00:24:01:10

20% of this is edited listeners.

00:24:01:10 - 00:24:04:10

The rest of it is off the cuff.

00:24:04:10 - 00:24:09:21

But yeah, it's again,

I completely go along with,

00:24:09:29 - 00:24:14:06

with what you're saying as well that Mirai

because this industry

00:24:15:19 - 00:24:17:12

is what is it

00:24:17:12 - 00:24:19:25

you're saying that it's a small

big big quote

00:24:20:17 - 00:24:25:10

and I think what we're trying to do

short term rentals as well.

00:24:25:20 - 00:24:26:04

You know,

00:24:26:07 - 00:24:29:20

we have a website and we cover news

and we're doing

00:24:29:20 - 00:24:31:05

different types of media as well.

00:24:31:05 - 00:24:35:07

But with things like the

the awards that we're doing, the shorties

00:24:35:07 - 00:24:36:20

as well, we really want to

00:24:37:24 - 00:24:38:24

bring.

00:24:38:24 - 00:24:41:04

I think

it's great when there's opportunities

00:24:41:04 - 00:24:43:07

to bring the whole industry

together as well.

00:24:43:07 - 00:24:46:20

And as in when I went across to Vera mae

00:24:47:10 - 00:24:51:10

International in October,

it was fantastic to see so many people

00:24:51:10 - 00:24:54:04

and this is on a Scott

who I'd really never

00:24:54:25 - 00:24:57:03

anticipated as well.

00:24:57:03 - 00:24:59:23

There is no chance

that they would speak to everyone that.

00:24:59:23 - 00:25:02:25

But yeah,

and we got the short strike summit,

00:25:02:25 - 00:25:05:02

which is probably our places in

00:25:06:13 - 00:25:07:13

here in the UK.

00:25:07:13 - 00:25:11:29

But you know, with our awards

when we're able to collect entries

00:25:11:29 - 00:25:15:02

from Chile,

we've had Australia and New Zealand,

00:25:15:19 - 00:25:18:02

South America, us

00:25:18:07 - 00:25:23:25

and get everyone together

to really celebrate achievement

00:25:23:25 - 00:25:26:28

or recognize the contributions

that people are making.

00:25:27:23 - 00:25:30:28

You know, I think this is a really good

industry player.

00:25:31:19 - 00:25:32:20

Yeah, that's huge.

00:25:32:20 - 00:25:35:25

And I think it is

so nice to take a minute, right, to

00:25:36:02 - 00:25:40:17

to celebrate that

and sort of have bring more awareness to,

00:25:40:18 - 00:25:42:21

you know, folks

that are doing really great work

00:25:42:21 - 00:25:44:24

in the business

in several different categories.

00:25:44:24 - 00:25:46:04

I think what's great about the shortage

00:25:46:04 - 00:25:50:04

is it probably covers nearly

every topic possible.

00:25:50:13 - 00:25:53:19

I mean,

I think we were up to 20 categories

00:25:53:19 - 00:25:58:17

and we still have people suggesting

different things and,

00:25:58:17 - 00:26:02:14

you know, at some point we are going to

just have to cut it off and

00:26:03:14 - 00:26:04:11

and that would be that.

00:26:04:11 - 00:26:06:16

But there's

00:26:06:16 - 00:26:09:07

always kind of got to follow the market.

00:26:09:07 - 00:26:10:25

And if there are

00:26:10:25 - 00:26:14:07

if there are interesting trends

developing, like, for example, we had

00:26:15:11 - 00:26:17:11

and I know

this is also relevant to you, but

00:26:17:11 - 00:26:19:27

we have a rental Preneur Board

for the first time

00:26:20:10 - 00:26:23:14

and our awards are always about being

00:26:23:14 - 00:26:26:17

as inclusive and diverse as possible.

00:26:26:17 - 00:26:31:18

And this was a segment that we saw that

probably wasn't enough

00:26:32:12 - 00:26:38:14

emphasis, things being placed on these,

you know, traditional hosts.

00:26:38:21 - 00:26:39:12

Essentially.

00:26:39:12 - 00:26:43:16

They're not the big property managers,

but they are hosts in their own right

00:26:43:16 - 00:26:47:09

and they're renting out properties and

they might be scaling their portfolios.

00:26:47:19 - 00:26:50:18

And they're a big part of this,

this industry as well.

00:26:50:18 - 00:26:55:07

So we're delighted to bring in

for the first time.

00:26:55:24 - 00:26:59:04

I love I love, love, love this,

because I think that was one of the things

00:26:59:04 - 00:27:02:07

that really sort of struck me again,

sort of being a little bit

00:27:02:07 - 00:27:04:24

I mean, what's interesting about

I think both you and I.

00:27:04:24 - 00:27:07:23

Correct,

because we're not we're not actually

00:27:07:23 - 00:27:10:23

like I don't have a short term

rental property right now.

00:27:10:23 - 00:27:12:10

Like, part of the reason I'm doing

this podcast

00:27:12:10 - 00:27:14:12

is because I want everyone

to tell me how to do it. So I can.

00:27:15:16 - 00:27:17:01

Tell you to ask questions.

00:27:17:01 - 00:27:19:02

You Thank you, thank you.

00:27:20:14 - 00:27:22:15

But like,

you know, as a consequence of that,

00:27:22:15 - 00:27:24:27

we have a little less skin in the game,

so to speak.

00:27:24:27 - 00:27:29:02

So what was so interesting to me,

you know, in full transparency and again,

00:27:29:06 - 00:27:31:01

I'm not trying to be controversial,

00:27:31:01 - 00:27:34:12

but but sort of the very much

like the division.

00:27:34:12 - 00:27:35:12

Right.

00:27:35:12 - 00:27:38:26

That sometimes feels like it gets over

highlighted in the business.

00:27:38:26 - 00:27:42:23

And maybe because it's provocative

between like, oh, what's a rental preneur?

00:27:42:23 - 00:27:45:27

Or like an individual host

versus like a property manager

00:27:45:27 - 00:27:48:29

or vacation

rental manager and like, you know,

00:27:49:19 - 00:27:52:22

because rightfully so, maybe

there's a lot of people who say, look,

00:27:52:22 - 00:27:56:17

before Airbnb was a thing, I was doing

this like, this is a new thing.

00:27:56:17 - 00:27:58:13

That's not the new thing.

00:27:59:13 - 00:28:00:03

However,

00:28:00:03 - 00:28:04:11

Airbnb has done

an amazing job of bringing, you know, that

00:28:04:11 - 00:28:07:17

that type of business,

our business, into the mainstream.

00:28:08:03 - 00:28:10:27

And they've done an incredible job,

hopefully providing folks

00:28:10:27 - 00:28:14:19

with an opportunity

for upward mobility as a consequence.

00:28:14:29 - 00:28:17:05

And they've provided a bunch of travelers

00:28:17:25 - 00:28:20:00

with alternative options to your point.

00:28:20:11 - 00:28:23:12

So I love this idea,

like, let's bring ourselves together.

00:28:23:12 - 00:28:26:20

Let's celebrate both sides of that fence,

which I think is where you are.

00:28:26:21 - 00:28:27:18

You're Yeah.

00:28:27:18 - 00:28:29:26

You're headed with that, I think.

00:28:29:26 - 00:28:30:20

Totally. Yeah.

00:28:30:20 - 00:28:34:07

I mean, as a as a journalist,

I've got to be impartial

00:28:34:24 - 00:28:36:22

on these different matters.

00:28:36:22 - 00:28:38:27

But nevertheless, you do say,

00:28:40:13 - 00:28:44:09

rightly or wrongly,

maybe some some Airbnb bashing at times.

00:28:44:09 - 00:28:47:10

And no,

00:28:47:10 - 00:28:50:21

I'm perhaps some of that is

there is some merit that

00:28:51:06 - 00:28:56:04

this course this isn't an industry

that just started in in 2008

00:28:56:04 - 00:28:58:29

when rightly and they started to launch.

00:28:59:10 - 00:29:02:02

But I think at the same time,

00:29:02:18 - 00:29:05:26

whether you agree with everything,

every decision

00:29:05:26 - 00:29:08:26

that they're making along the way,

there's still an industry

00:29:08:26 - 00:29:12:26

that has really accelerated

just in the last couple of years

00:29:14:21 - 00:29:15:16

and this now coming

00:29:15:16 - 00:29:17:17

up to coming up to five years and,

00:29:18:16 - 00:29:23:14

you know, product launches, I think

I think whatever anyone would say as well

00:29:23:14 - 00:29:26:25

is if there's one person you listen to

in this industry,

00:29:28:08 - 00:29:30:09

I get short term rentals for a minute. But

00:29:31:17 - 00:29:33:23

Brian Chesky on on right

00:29:33:25 - 00:29:37:05

So any communication channel he

00:29:37:23 - 00:29:41:01

he is always ahead of the game

00:29:41:01 - 00:29:44:15

with the latest trends and the

00:29:46:09 - 00:29:48:12

innovations in the sector as well.

00:29:50:04 - 00:29:53:20

And I mean even he's to some extent now

00:29:53:20 - 00:29:56:23

rental preneur he's he's hosting

people within his own

00:29:57:26 - 00:29:58:25

business.

00:29:58:25 - 00:29:59:07

Yeah.

00:29:59:07 - 00:30:03:03

And encouraging digital nomads

00:30:03:03 - 00:30:06:24

to travel around

and stay in an Airbnb listing

00:30:06:29 - 00:30:10:15

But yeah, whether you agree or not, Airbnb

00:30:10:15 - 00:30:14:00

has this huge marketing and PR machine.

00:30:14:06 - 00:30:16:21

But what I want to do

is like sort of, I'll bring it in.

00:30:16:21 - 00:30:18:27

So because you're giving me so.

00:30:18:28 - 00:30:23:02

Paul, what I love, love, love

about what you're saying right now is I'm

00:30:23:02 - 00:30:26:13

I'm getting this sort of thread like I'm

starting to connect some dots here.

00:30:26:22 - 00:30:29:26

And what is really, really interesting

about all the things we're talking about,

00:30:30:03 - 00:30:32:25

which is technology, right?

00:30:32:25 - 00:30:37:22

Regulation and, you know, Airbnb

and like the reality of this,

00:30:38:03 - 00:30:40:13

all three of those are

those are outstanding factors

00:30:40:13 - 00:30:43:13

that a lot of people in this business

may or may not have control over.

00:30:44:00 - 00:30:44:17

Right.

00:30:44:17 - 00:30:48:10

Yeah, those are things that are happening

can feel like they're

00:30:48:10 - 00:30:52:11

happening to us

as people operating in this industry.

00:30:53:16 - 00:30:56:11

And what's what's sort of like

what's striking me at the moment

00:30:56:11 - 00:30:59:25

is that like you can either

sort of try to ignore them

00:31:00:03 - 00:31:03:24

or try to bash them

and try not to get involved in them.

00:31:03:24 - 00:31:06:20

Or you can embrace that there's a change

of come in

00:31:07:05 - 00:31:09:13

and evolve along with them.

00:31:09:25 - 00:31:10:19

Right?

00:31:10:21 - 00:31:13:29

It was

I think it was in Vegas when, wasn't it?

00:31:13:29 - 00:31:18:03

We were talking about the AP

and they were was the Airbnb

00:31:18:03 - 00:31:21:01

bash has been.

00:31:21:18 - 00:31:23:00

Are being bust.

00:31:23:00 - 00:31:25:15

I had the impression that exactly.

00:31:25:16 - 00:31:27:17

You and I are rebranding it. It's Airbnb.

00:31:27:17 - 00:31:32:11

Bailey Airbnb was it was the app and bust

originally your your wedding your.

00:31:32:18 - 00:31:35:27

No, no I mean I know the Twitter handle

but we're not going to call. Yeah

00:31:37:05 - 00:31:38:17

exactly. It's

00:31:39:26 - 00:31:41:08

it's an industry that

00:31:41:08 - 00:31:45:20

Airbnb has whether we like or not,

played a part in the growth

00:31:45:20 - 00:31:49:14

and the awareness of the industry

and and separately sort of the

00:31:50:28 - 00:31:55:04

the regulatory

I think the scrutiny on this industry

00:31:55:13 - 00:31:59:29

and rightly so, there should be scrutiny

with any industry or business

00:32:00:29 - 00:32:03:07

that it has

00:32:03:07 - 00:32:06:25

maybe helped other booking platforms

00:32:06:25 - 00:32:11:19

or other of a host of event promoters

who want to scale portfolio.

00:32:11:21 - 00:32:14:09

They can look at the success

that the NBA has had

00:32:14:20 - 00:32:19:16

and maybe they can take learnings from it

or maybe they can take it

00:32:19:17 - 00:32:20:11

their own route as well.

00:32:20:11 - 00:32:24:29

And everyone has their own business model

in their own direction

00:32:24:29 - 00:32:25:29

that they want to go in.

00:32:25:29 - 00:32:29:29

So yeah, I think

hopefully that's the impartial answer.

00:32:29:29 - 00:32:31:08

I can give you.

00:32:31:10 - 00:32:31:26

I like it.

00:32:31:26 - 00:32:34:24

I know you are like,

don't try to bait me into a argument.

00:32:35:16 - 00:32:39:29

It's usually me trying to, well,

maybe not bait, but provoke.

00:32:39:29 - 00:32:43:17

Yeah, Yeah. With the right words.

00:32:44:17 - 00:32:47:25

Once again,

Paul, you're doing such a great job again.

00:32:47:26 - 00:32:49:13

Now you're going to have

so much more empathy.

00:32:49:13 - 00:32:52:19

Next time you interview someone,

you're like, Oh, I see how this is.

00:32:53:28 - 00:32:56:10

So I also hopefully I'm playing fair.

00:32:57:11 - 00:33:00:00

You what?

00:33:00:00 - 00:33:04:25

I want to pull more on the thread

of the technology because so one,

00:33:04:25 - 00:33:09:08

selfishly I'm like, okay, so you did this

amazing webinar and what what is it?

00:33:09:08 - 00:33:10:19

Where are we going?

00:33:10:19 - 00:33:11:28

What's what's the answer?

00:33:11:28 - 00:33:16:16

What are people looking for

in terms of data and technology webinar?

00:33:16:16 - 00:33:19:25

We were doing on Yes, it is Tuesday.

00:33:19:25 - 00:33:23:08

We called it Data with Destiny Predicting

00:33:24:11 - 00:33:26:10

stories. I mean, I love these.

00:33:26:24 - 00:33:28:11

This is one of the best parts of webinars.

00:33:28:11 - 00:33:30:17

You have complete

control over the titles, but

00:33:31:19 - 00:33:33:19

I think Dates with Destiny is

00:33:33:19 - 00:33:39:02

is such a it's a

so it's exactly where the sweet spot

00:33:39:02 - 00:33:42:05

where we're trying to get

because yeah, companies

00:33:43:02 - 00:33:46:29

I mean everyone relies on data at the end

of the day and this industry as well

00:33:46:29 - 00:33:51:20

and people may be just looking at,

you know, what is the data that we need,

00:33:51:20 - 00:33:57:19

How can we deploy this

as efficiently as possible?

00:33:57:19 - 00:34:03:13

We had to go as well, metasearch companies

based out of Germany as well.

00:34:03:22 - 00:34:09:00

And they were providing some some really

fascinating insights on how that providing

00:34:09:00 - 00:34:14:25

a more personalized, curated selection

of vacation rentals around the world.

00:34:14:25 - 00:34:16:29

So it's it's it's very much

00:34:16:29 - 00:34:19:16

there's all this data around

how are you scraping

00:34:19:16 - 00:34:23:21

how are you extracting

the most important data

00:34:23:22 - 00:34:28:05

not just not just sort of in general,

but the most important data to you,

00:34:28:29 - 00:34:31:11

maybe that's on hyper

00:34:31:11 - 00:34:33:16

hyper local market data

00:34:34:00 - 00:34:37:10

for you,

or maybe that's informing companies

00:34:37:10 - 00:34:39:22

where they're going to expand

their portfolios to

00:34:39:22 - 00:34:43:05

or whether it's investment plans,

whether they're going to invest.

00:34:43:05 - 00:34:46:21

So it's really fascinating

00:34:47:19 - 00:34:48:13

that cool

00:34:48:13 - 00:34:50:15

and something that I'm learning about

00:34:51:13 - 00:34:53:16

data is always something

that's going to be around

00:34:53:16 - 00:34:55:00

and it's going to keep to those things.

00:34:55:00 - 00:34:57:24

So we'll certainly be tracking it.

00:34:58:17 - 00:34:59:25

I love this. Well, all right.

00:34:59:25 - 00:35:01:13

Well, I'm going to go back

and listen to the webinar.

00:35:01:13 - 00:35:03:11

Hopefully it's on demand somewhere.

00:35:03:11 - 00:35:05:00

Is is I'll send it to you.

00:35:05:00 - 00:35:05:22

All right.

00:35:05:22 - 00:35:08:26

We'll put it we're going to put it

in the show notes, too.

00:35:08:26 - 00:35:11:29

I think that that's a really interesting

point that you bring up, Right.

00:35:11:29 - 00:35:16:05

Which is that, you know,

I generally just when an industry

00:35:16:05 - 00:35:19:22

is in, it's

sort of like infancy teenage years, right?

00:35:19:22 - 00:35:23:13

Like there is so much tech out there,

there's so much data out there.

00:35:23:13 - 00:35:24:20

And it is really hard to understand.

00:35:24:20 - 00:35:28:01

Okay, like, is this a useful technology,

is this useful data?

00:35:28:25 - 00:35:32:04

But I expect that that will sort of change

as time goes on

00:35:32:04 - 00:35:36:26

and sort of again, at the Shorty Awards,

the winners will come a rise to the top.

00:35:38:04 - 00:35:40:02

Well, Paul, I

00:35:40:02 - 00:35:43:26

again, totally allowed to do

shameless plugs on this.

00:35:43:26 - 00:35:47:09

You have some really exciting things

happening in 2023,

00:35:47:29 - 00:35:50:17

and we just talked about COVID

and virtual things,

00:35:50:17 - 00:35:54:21

but these are IRL in real life events

that are happening.

00:35:55:05 - 00:35:58:11

Talk to me because you've just

partnered up with Skift Yes, yeah.

00:35:58:18 - 00:36:02:12

I mean, the next couple of months

in our calendar

00:36:02:29 - 00:36:05:10

I know that that's happening,

it seems that

00:36:05:21 - 00:36:08:14

we've got some,

some really exciting announcements.

00:36:09:06 - 00:36:11:19

I mean, firstly,

00:36:12:05 - 00:36:16:16

I'm not sure exactly when this episode

is coming out, but in a couple of weeks

00:36:16:16 - 00:36:20:22

time we'll be hosting the Shorties

Awards again.

00:36:20:22 - 00:36:24:06

Delighted to be back in person

and we're actually doing this.

00:36:24:28 - 00:36:27:15

We always find a unique venue

to do it as well.

00:36:27:15 - 00:36:30:24

So we've we've picked the orbit, which is

00:36:32:00 - 00:36:33:01

designed by Anish

00:36:33:01 - 00:36:37:03

Kapoor as well,

and it's this big twisty sculpture

00:36:37:03 - 00:36:40:18

outside of what was the Olympic

Stadium 2012

00:36:42:03 - 00:36:45:01

and fantastic

views overlooking London as well.

00:36:45:01 - 00:36:46:19

So we think it's the perfect venue

00:36:46:19 - 00:36:50:12

for this type of event

and we really like that unique

00:36:50:13 - 00:36:53:28

and quite casual vibe

with this particular awards.

00:36:55:05 - 00:36:56:14

We'll be there, don't worry.

00:36:56:14 - 00:36:57:01

Oh, yes.

00:36:57:01 - 00:37:00:01

Well, Ed and I are a sponsor as well,

so again,

00:37:00:01 - 00:37:02:10

we're grateful for the support for that.

00:37:03:05 - 00:37:06:03

And on top of that as well, we've

00:37:06:26 - 00:37:10:14

announced just in the last couple of weeks

that we partnered with Skift as well.

00:37:10:26 - 00:37:14:26

Skift is a publication

that hopefully all or.

00:37:15:28 - 00:37:17:29

Well, put it in the show notes

if you don't know about it.

00:37:19:03 - 00:37:21:10

All, all of your listeners and viewers

00:37:21:10 - 00:37:24:14

I'm sure, are aware of Skift

and what they're doing.

00:37:24:14 - 00:37:28:08

And we are partners and two events

this year

00:37:29:03 - 00:37:32:24

and in June

they're hosting a short ten minute summit

00:37:32:24 - 00:37:37:16

and some speakers are still being

content. But.

00:37:37:16 - 00:37:40:20

Skift doing most of the work

for this one that we are

00:37:41:10 - 00:37:44:21

partnering in terms of moderating,

and we'll be doing some interviews

00:37:44:21 - 00:37:45:18

there as well.

00:37:45:18 - 00:37:49:16

So it seems like a big milestone

to announce this

00:37:49:16 - 00:37:54:10

and really get to

some of the big leaders across the course.

00:37:54:10 - 00:37:58:09

The states that we keep coming across

from Europe and elsewhere, I'd say.

00:37:58:25 - 00:38:01:13

And then on top of that,

we are going to be

00:38:02:08 - 00:38:06:01

hosting our own Nobu

summit in November as well. So

00:38:07:03 - 00:38:07:23

we've already got

00:38:07:23 - 00:38:11:20

prospective agenda out there

with deliberately timed as well

00:38:12:08 - 00:38:16:06

to be the last day of world

travel market that we have in London.

00:38:16:07 - 00:38:21:17

So we're really going to go you're going

to have these converging audiences,

00:38:21:17 - 00:38:27:00

maybe not solely in short term rentals,

but why the hospitality and travel?

00:38:27:00 - 00:38:30:18

And I think it's just a really exciting

development as well.

00:38:30:18 - 00:38:33:07

So we're looking forward to

00:38:35:14 - 00:38:37:25

presenting this

this new event in partnership

00:38:37:25 - 00:38:40:23

with Skift, sharing insights

00:38:41:24 - 00:38:46:14

and tour expertise

and yet will encourage people

00:38:46:14 - 00:38:51:08

to book tickets in the meantime

and see lots of either in person as well.

00:38:52:02 - 00:38:52:21

I love this.

00:38:52:21 - 00:38:56:00

Well, you know, we'll be there

and this is very, very exciting.

00:38:56:16 - 00:38:57:26

I love the last one, right?

00:38:57:26 - 00:39:01:02

Like, it just encourages us to go

a little bit beyond our four walls, right?

00:39:01:02 - 00:39:04:06

Like,

let's bring in a few industries together.

00:39:04:06 - 00:39:05:29

I don't know what you think.

00:39:05:29 - 00:39:09:18

It's we saw each other,

as I said, there may but

00:39:10:21 - 00:39:11:27

COVID and

00:39:11:27 - 00:39:16:24

lockdowns, it's

still doing the podcast and zooms, etc.

00:39:16:24 - 00:39:21:28

but it seems like such a long time ago

and that that human bond

00:39:21:28 - 00:39:24:23

and that in-person element is

00:39:25:10 - 00:39:28:00

we have maybe a newly learned

00:39:28:05 - 00:39:31:03

appreciation of that's the real benefit of

00:39:32:07 - 00:39:35:13

whether that's being there

in the conference center

00:39:35:13 - 00:39:38:06

and talking about products or news

or whether you're

00:39:38:07 - 00:39:40:21

just in the bath

or just having a drink or something.

00:39:40:22 - 00:39:43:04

It's really important.

00:39:43:04 - 00:39:44:14

100%. Yeah.

00:39:44:14 - 00:39:47:18

No, it's a game changer,

definitely to go to these events

00:39:47:18 - 00:39:50:17

and be able to meet people in person

and like you said,

00:39:50:17 - 00:39:54:00

probably see people that you've talked

to before virtually or emailed

00:39:54:00 - 00:39:56:11

or followed on Twitter and then meet them

00:39:57:04 - 00:40:00:08

and confirm that they're not avatars

in your imagination.

00:40:00:08 - 00:40:00:26

Absolutely.

00:40:00:26 - 00:40:03:18

We know quite a lot,

hopefully in the metaverse. Yet

00:40:04:26 - 00:40:07:18

I can't predict the future, but.

00:40:08:26 - 00:40:11:09

Oh, Paul,

I've had so much fun talking to you today.

00:40:11:28 - 00:40:15:07

We will we'll get this podcast out

before the shorties

00:40:15:07 - 00:40:17:18

so that everyone can hear about it.

00:40:17:18 - 00:40:21:20

And we're super, super excited

to be joining you there in just a short

00:40:21:20 - 00:40:25:14

few short weeks, days,

whoever time we're in the metaverse.

00:40:25:16 - 00:40:26:11

I now

00:40:27:02 - 00:40:29:23

the time I think the time

is going to go by very quickly.

00:40:29:23 - 00:40:33:04

But yeah, really echo

what you say, Mariah, really.

00:40:33:04 - 00:40:37:00

Thank you very much

for having us on the podcast.

00:40:37:00 - 00:40:39:28

Look forward to seeing you

and lots of that industry people

00:40:40:22 - 00:40:43:06

at the awards or at the summit and.

00:40:43:06 - 00:40:46:06

Skift And please do approach us Well,

00:40:46:07 - 00:40:49:29

we're happy to discuss

anything related to the industry.